Out of Character Chat

[Genisisect]

I almost forgot to make this one...

This is where we could do most OOC discussions, I prefer it to be done here then on then on the Character Profile and of-course, no OOC posts on the Game thread.

[KnifeytheWanderer]

Okay, just leaving a note here to say that I'm willing to make a post in the main roleplay thread as soon as I get some sort of approval for my character?
I mean, to my knowledge he's fine (decently built, plenty of flaws and strengths), but if anyone (mostly you, DM, as while I would say I probably have more forum roleplaying knowledge, you have a deeper understanding of Waterdeep and the Forgotten Realms than I probably ever will so if you have any issues with something feel free to tell me on here, since I know you can't do emails right now.)

Also, ahaha, I'd never be able to play a character like this at a table. For reasons relating to both mechanics (I don't quite think tiefling and bard match up, since, you know, charisma penalty) and, well, he's got a personality I would totally fail at channeling at a table (also, pretty sure no one here wants me roleplaying a flirtatious character to their face). I mean, I will probably fail my arcane character anyway (poor intimidating N'Miir), and I can't even really do Knifey at the table either (oh my poor soulknife   ) but I still reckon I'd roleplay him better than Akmenos...at a table.
I think I'll do fine via forum though, so wooh!

Now I'd better get back to finishing of N'Miir's backstory arghgfdgh

[Genisisect]

I see no obvious errors, and very much enjoyed reading through. Can't wait to see what you have for a first post!

[KnifeytheWanderer]

My first post is a bit long, apologies. I wanted to establish an idea of Akmenos and Amarillis's relationship before I killed him.
I hope you (or whoever decides to post next) find it easy to reply to though. I'd guess even Meridia can appreciate the sight of a tiefling driven half-mad by grief killing shades somewhere near her (I couldn't do much to interact with her aside from have Akmenos take notice of her calm form amongst the crowd, as right now he's well...yeah, half-mad.)

But yeah, my posts will be considerably less lengthy once things get underway, I just needed a long introductory post, eheh.

[JohnTheRanger]

Just putting this out there: I'd really like to make a centaur character at some point in my D&D-related experience. Preferably a *flying* centaur character.

However, I realise this is impractical with this forum RPG - we are fairly and reasonably restricted to 'standard-ish' races. Also, the level adjustment and bonus HD of a centaur is somewhat excessive for the nominal power level of the RPG. Regardless, I'm going to put forth a few cool centaur character designs here.

Wizard/Warlock/Eldritch Theurge (combined levelling of wizard spells and warlock invocations)
- Fell Flight via 6th invocation level: All flying. All the time. (Flight is an ability I consider invaluable when caught up in an extra-dimensional alien invasion.)
- I was thinking of having some kind of centaur exiled from his herd for his unnatural arcane powers, struggling to learn the ways of two-legger life while studying at some kind of Magical Institute/Wizard's Guild, trying to understand the origin of his abilities. Torn between three natures: man, beast, and eldritch entity. Faces prejudice from multiple angles in Waterdeep because of this.

Cleric/Wizard/Mystic Theurge (combined levelling of arcane and divine spells)
- Crippled exiled centaur working as a travelling healer or alchemist. Lost or broke a leg and was abandoned by his herd: " A centaur who cannot run is no centaur at all.". Greatly aged now, he has lost much of his physical abilities but retains a sharp mind and a kind heart. Dispenses healing potions to the needy, tinkers with magical devices. Is reliant on boots of levitation worn on his crippled hind legs/one remaining leg for mobility and stair climbing.
- Animal devotion (Complete Champion) for Hawk's Flight (overland flight as spell-like ability once per day); otherwise not a flight orientated design.

Monk/Cloistered Cleric
- Really wanted to act as a class which I wouldn't usually touch in gameplay due to sub-optimal mechanics but is thematically appealing.
- Mainly a monk: tattooed with various plant and animal motifs. Very physically powerful and with great wisdom. All about self control and mastery of the inner beast, while revelling in the martial prowess conferred by his unique physical form. Trained at a distant and secluded monastery (think Shao Lin). He's a wanderer - just passing through Waterdeep rather than being a permanent resident. Quiet and reserved, very inexperienced with the city way of life.
- Animal devotion for Hawk's Flight once again. I want this monk to be able to jump and fly around like in those Wuxia films (wire-fu.).

These are just some experimental ideas I came up with. Centaurs have to happen at some point!

[Genisisect]

James I am willing to not consider the level adjustment on the centaur, so you will only have to deal with the 4 racial HD, which would restrict you to 6 character levels. And there was no restriction on races for the forum RPG, you would just need to make sure the presence of your character makes sense, (and honestly I never said everyone needs to be inside the city limits either, your character could start by witnessing the events at Waterdeep from the nearby country side!). I recon if your going to get a centaur into your DnD experience now will be the best time to do so!

In fact a Centaur 4/ Warlock 6 will have access to Fell Flight, which will allow you to have an all fly all the time Centaur!  Probably use Feys as the source of your eldrich power instead of Devils though (and rejig the invocations names to suit)

I'm not going to check how well you can do the other builds with only 6(ish) levels to play with, but I wouldn't be surprised if you could manage the Monk build, though maybe not the the level you had previously imagined.

Can't wait to see what you come up with!

[KnifeytheWanderer]

Personally I wouldn't even worry about the HD, so long as you can imagine that even without the adjustment you're still on the same level as Genisisect and myself. So I guess that means you have to imagine yourself (as a centaur using any of those builds) as being equal in overall power level to Akmenos and Meridia.

Like seriously beyond going 'hey I'd like to play a tiefling bard/rogue' I've barely considered my stats. Ability modifiers I considered more after I had constructed the character (and thus I was able to see how well they suited his personality, backstory, and additional quirks).
And combat is weird for me. I consider more 'what would a bard/rogue be able to do if they were less confined by the balance mechanisms for a tabletop roleplay, and more if they were confined by the balance mechanisms for a forum roleplay.' Because the two do work in very different ways (I mean both can be ultimately balanced by a moderator/dungeon master/etc, but in terms of rules you need concrete stats and effects for a tabletop roleplay, whereas for a forum roleplay it's assumed that no matter how you build you character they'll still, for whatever reasons, be at the same approximate power levels as everyone else -and if you intend for it to be otherwise, then you need to state this to whoever heads the roleplay and let them decide if you are allowed to have more power or not-. Also, each individual forum roleplay does tend to have their own power balance rules, and well, as mentioned in the rules no one can technically hit another player without that player saying so. Meridia can't sneak up behind Akmenos and slit his throat, and Akmenos can't start fascinating Meridia with his song and dance.)

If it helps, consider Knifey's backstory. The things he did in it are things I think...well, they're things I don't think he could even pull off at level twenty with in-game stats (and my incredibly poor building skills). Also, most munchkins would probably cringe at it because soulknives are apparently very broken (but whatever, they've got a good character flavour and Knifey is precious to me now), so tales of one doing what Knifey has would probably be frustrating because 'well look at the stats!!'
But I can get away with it, kind of, because the backstory is in place for roleplaying purposes, and heck, I've even kind of got an excuse to why he can't repeat it (in reference to both his character and xeph culture and blahblahblah, not going to prattle on about it).

All this being said however, Genisisect appears to have ruled that the 4 racial HD are important, so important they shall be. If you can still make your 'fly all the time' centaur with that in place though, then go for it I say!   

I reckon they'd be a great addition to our merry band of adventurers (still a small band, but that's fine!!) Depending on their overall personality and alignment, it'll be interesting to see how the fit in with Meridia and Akmenos.

[Genisisect]

Hmm that actually makes a lot of sense, so I'm going to reverse my original ruling, instead of ignoring the level adjustment and just taking the HD, you can ignore the HD and just take the Level adjustment. The level adjustment takes in consideration abilities, which is what's applicable in a forum RPG, further because most of the abilities of a centaur is ability score bonuses, I'm only going to enforce a +1 level adjustment, which could in theory be ignored.

Also James don't forget you can modify class abilities for flavour like how I swapped out the assassins arcane spells for +1 warlock spell casting. As long as the swap is reasonable of course

Finally it may interest you to know that my sister Jaimie, who is also going to join in, will be playing some kind of sylvan/ fey Druid, so perhaps the two of you could work out a section of combined backstory...

[Genisisect]

Just out of curiosity, and for the sake off planning, what are you all planning to do?

I think my characters first and foremost plan would be escape, but I know that lawless plans on having his story focus directly on confronting the shades. If everyone else plans to attend to the battle I will need to alter my planned story line (not that I had much of a plan) such that meridia can't find a suitable means of escape and thus is begrudgingly involved in the counter attack.

Also this section (and the forum itself) hasn't seen much life so maybe this will bring a bit back...

[KnifeytheWanderer]

I can be flexible with Akmenos. If people really can't justify their character staying in the city, at the very least I can keep Akmenos within its confines so that Tharry's character has some company. Though I'd like to limit the amount of posts we make while the group is separated if that occurs, otherwise things might get muddled and confusing.

Also, out of curiosity, is it possible to resurrect a dead person if a necromancer turns them into a minion first? Because I think that might be a fun option for why Akmenos can't resurrect Amarillis (I know they exist for gameplay reasons, but the DnD resurrection rules really to negate a lot of weight of death unless you can work around them).

Plus, if he's controlled by a fairly powerful Shade Necromancer (of some sort -dread, normal, etc-), it'd be understandable that Akmenos couldn't just kill the guy and rescue Amarillis. The Shade in question is too powerful for him to overcome.

I don't know if that would work, but it would give Akmenos something he could bond with Tharry's Shade Hunter about. It would also be pretty good motivation for him to adventure/get stronger. He needs the allies -and the one's mentioned in his backstory are most likely away from Waterdeep at the time of the attack, and have no intention of going anywhere near the place while the Shade City is still hanging about-, and if he wants to get Amarillis back, he's going to need to become a lot more powerful.

(also, he'd need money/diamonds/whatever it is you need to convince a high level cleric to resurrect someone, so that's another good reason for adventuring. Loot.)

But yeah, this is just a potential idea for Akmenos and his future motivations? I don't know how this works when applying your knowledge of the DnD universe however, Genisisect, so there could be something very wrong with it.

Also, as a side note, the reason Akmenos can't simply overpower Amarillis's corpse and steal it back is because the Shade Necromancer is just that talented. Very powerful. He can manipulate Amarillis's corpse very well (do necromancers give their corpses buffs/boons as well?), so...yeah. (I might be 'reaching', but I'm trying to find a way to keep this guy dead. Of course, with the way this works this also always me to potentially, one day, in the very distant future, bring Amarillis back. Maybe. If I feel like it).

But anyway, I'll leave this here to get your opinion on it. I don't think it'd be unreasonable. It also doesn't put my character in any sort of unnecessary spotlight. Amarillis may be Akmenos's beloved, but to the Shade Necromancer, Amarillis is just another one of their undead minions (they just prefer not to lose their minions, they look collecting them) and Akmenos is just some foolish pest, at most.
Really, all it does it a) prevent Amarillis from being resurrected, and b) give Akmenos some more motivation.

I await your approval or criticism.   

[Genisisect]

Raise dead, the most commonly available cannot resurrect undead so, idea confirmed!

I also like the idea!

[Genisisect]

Also as before mentioned, probably won't flee at all. Just be every trying to escape. That way we won't split the party right off the bat!

[Genisisect]

"Neutral Evil: Sometimes known as the Asshole Alignment. The Neutral Evil Alignment can be even more dangerous than the Chaotic Evil Alignment — simply because you can't be sure of which way they'll swing in the end. Neutral Evil characters are primarily in it for themselves, because while they are usually villains, they can also swing to the good guy's side, like the Magnificent Bastard they really are. They may also just happen to be on the Good Guy's Team because it's better for them at the moment. Why are they so bad? It could be that Evil Tastes Good or maybe Evil Feels Good. Could be that they've given in to The Dark Side. They could be part of the Religion of Evil. They could just be, you know, sociopaths. They could take looking out for number one way too far. Or it could be for no readily apparent reason whatsoever. They can be the very embodiment of malice, or just petty thugs. In Dungeons & Dragons, characters who are selfish above all else are Neutral Evil by default. Expect any Neutral Evil state to be Mordor, and a Neutral Evil city the Wretched Hive"

Seems like a pretty decent description of my Character. Looks like I picked the right one!

In-fact I think she fits nicely into type 1

"Type 1 characters are amoral and commit evil for self-serving, but not necessarily malicious purposes. They tend to be in it for money and power but (generally) eschew motives like revenge or sadism, viewing them as barbaric or simply unprofessional, if they regard them at all; that does not mean they'll always, or ever, stop their bosses, partners or lackeys from indulging in such behavior, though, and they are usually prepared to Kick the Dog or perform Cold-Blooded Torture as a means to an end. Perhaps they are a Punch Clock Villain, or maybe they believe there is Better Living Through Evil, or perhaps they are Blessed with Suck and their talents happen to lend themselves to evil (like, say, a talent for professional hits). Essentially, this is anyone who would be a True Neutral if not for the lack of conscience or empathy, or their practice of putting either aside to further their own ends. A type 1 will either not understand the difference between right and wrong, or understand but choose wrong anyway, perhaps justifying it with Necessarily Evil, or perhaps simply not viewing the whole Good and Evil thing to be of any special importance in the first place. On the other end of the scale, this can ramp up to Above Good and Evil, but who are just culpable enough to still qualify as evil."

[KnifeytheWanderer]

Well, I can say for sure that both Knifey and Akmenos are Chaotic Good characters. Knifey is a Type 4, which is:

Type 4 is a fair balance between Types 1 and 2. They believe in doing good and in their freedom to do good, but have a grudging or even healthy respect for Lawful Good methods or types who pursue goodness by other means. Essentially, they believe that they should be allowed to be free and good as they see fit, but recognize that the rest of the world is more complicated and that whether the time is for freedom or goodness is down to a case by case basis, and will try and seek the middle ground. They try to be vigilant against the Chaotic Good danger of being judgmental on matters Lawful as best they can, though they are not immune to it.

Since Knifey has a decent amount of life experience and wisdom, I reckon this balanced approach to Chaotic Goodness fits him rather well.

Akmenos is more likely a Type 1, which is:

Type 1 are those who are more Chaotic than Good. They value freedom, and feel that they and others should be free to pursue their own desires — it just so happens that what they desire is to do good. They do not see doing good as a "duty" and may actively resent any attempts to compel them to do good even if the stakes are high, but will probably end up doing them anyway, justifying their actions by saying that this is what they want to do anyway. They are also the Type most likely to get annoyed by being called "The Hero" or something similar in context, though in practice this is often a Suspiciously Specific Denial. This is also the type most likely to be a Loveable Rogue who commits crimes for their own gain, but balance it out with Never Hurt an Innocent and doing lots of good elsewhere in their lives.

I've described him as an Ethical Hedonist before, which still works in conjunction with the above.

And since I mentioned it before via emails but never on here, I'll include N'Miir's Chaotic Neutral type as well, since it does give a better idea of where he fits in the Chaotic Neutral spectrum.

Type 4 are those who are overly cynical, and hold no allegiance to anyone and decide for themselves what is right or wrong, and whether or not they want to do anything about it. They are often the disillusioned types who once held onto an ideal or have lost their family or friends, and often belonged to a completely different alignment, but others were cynical from an early age, often (but not always) due to a bad childhood. They can be dragged into The Quest or bought for their services, and may battle the forces of evil if they come across them or they get in the way, but they lack conviction beyond basic self-interest, and if they still aspire to better themselves they are usually their own worst enemy. They are often loners, though they may have a handful of close family or friends, and tend to prize survival highly with wealth, luxury and power often being mainly (though not necessarily exclusively) a means of ensuring said-survival for good, assuming they are not self-destructive or suicidal. At their worst can be completely amoral and indifferent to other people getting hurt whether or not by their own hand, but they usually have the potential to still be good people.

And yes, I know this is probably just meant for roleplay characters, but I felt the need to include Knifey and N'Miir.   

Also, addressing your previous comments (because I'm slow), I'm glad you like my plans for Amarillis! I might write up a small NPC character sheet for the Shade Necromancer who'll be controlling him, as even though I don't plan to see them regularly, in terms of Akmenos's character they're going to be pretty important. And I guess if I ever bring back Amarillis, I'll probably have to write up a sheet for him (though I can't see that happening any time soon even if I did, so need for that currently).

And ah, okay. Well, that is good because it really is best not to split the party. Pretty sure Order of the Stick had an entire arc about that, hmmm...

Back on topic though, I have to wonder about the alignments of the rest of our party. See what we're going to be skewed towards, overall. Not that any single character has to obey what the party wants, I'm just curious to see if we're going to have a majority Good/Evil party, or if we're just going to end up very Neutral.
Ultimately, each character will be doing whatever they want to do though. We've just got to try and make it so that 'doing what they want' fits with 'staying in a group.' At they very least if they end up fleeing Waterdeep together, sticking with one another allows them to have some additional defense while they try and recuperate (well, that's me assuming that people aside from Akmenos are going to sustain some sort of injuries and/or emotional damage -in his case, both-) and get back on their feet.

[JohnTheRanger]

Amarillis's manner of death limits some of the means that could have been used to keep him down. If he had been killed by a sword thrust or a material weapon, there are a couple of weapon enhancements or special abilities that can trap the target's soul in the weapon, thereby inhibiting attempts at resurrection. A death-effect spell would also have prevented the action of Raise Dead, but not Resurrection or True Resurrection. Other spells exist to purposefully destroy the corpse in such a way as to prevent anything short of Wish or Miracle having any chance of success.

Being a turned into an undead creature would inhibit Raise Dead, but not Resurrection provided that the undead was properly slain prior to attempting the spell.

Missing body parts is a simple way of preventing Raise Dead working effectively. If Amarillis should somehow lose his head or some other vital component of his body, then that spell wouldn't work properly. Perhaps a passing animal could nibble on him a bit, seeing as he's just been left lying there. Also, the extend of the wound - a gaping hole in the chest, probably taking out the heart, parts of the lungs, and damaging other organs - might be beyond the power of the spell.

There is an additional time factor with Raise Dead: He couldn't be raised after more than 20 days, maximum, with that spell. Less, if a lower level cleric is casting the spell.

The previous two objections are overcome with a powerful Resurrection spell.
If Amarillis had been the Tiefling and Akmenos had been the Half-Elf, then nothing short of True Resurrection from the Core Spell List could have brought him back. Revive Outsider from the Spell Compendium would still work, too.

Also, possibly there aren't many clerics available in the city anymore - The temples would probably have been prime targets for the Shades in their initial barrage while they had the element of surprise, if they're following the reasoning of 'Shoot the Medic First'.

And, of course, there is the matter of finding a bunch of expensive diamonds to be actually power any of these resurrection spells. Even if they're available in the City, they're probably being stock-piled by the rich and the nobles and other significant figures in order to resurrect key leaders or spellcasters for the defence of the City.

[JohnTheRanger]

I'm thinking of having my character be one of the Shades - a good opportunity to play an evil aligned character. However, before I give further thought to this: How would having one character be a member of a group antagonistic to the bulk of the players in the RPG work out? Because if my guy is sitting up in the spaceship carpet-spelling the city, and you're all down there running around like headless chooks, I'd need to pretty much come up with my own supporting cast up on the spaceship...er... I mean, "Shade City". Though, from Cas's post it appears there are some Shades loose in the city, so I could, theoretically, be one of those. But I'd rather be directing fire from the Shade City, as I'd not like to play a foolish character who went down below to risk getting killed by spoony tiefling bards.

[Genisisect]

We could potentially go for an occupation instead of destroy (which is what it appears to be at the moment) that way your character could get down into the city. That said you are still guaranteed to not be able to interact much with Knifey's and Tharry's character (Merridia not so much). Not that it's a problem, you will just be relying on a support cast for a while.

That said, what happened to the All-the-fly-all-the-time centaur

[KnifeytheWanderer]

Ah, so on one hand some of the rules of the DnD universe make my idea of Amarillis being Raised from the Dead and then potentially resurrected at some point later in the story....difficult. Potentially impossible.

On the other hand, I've received Genisisect's approval (unless he's decided to withdraw it), and I tend to value story and character more than gameplay mechanics. At least, for this roleplay.

Of course, if my idea messes with too much of the DnD universe's rules, we can always do the fun thing and have some...Roleplay Homebrew!! Manipulating the entire universe to your storytelling needs because otherwise your resident Thespian will have a Heroic BSOD moment. (though technically, we don't have to manipulate the entire universe. All things considered, we can just homebrew in a new version of Raise Dead that deals with all the issues that have been presented with the 'Raise Dead' idea. I don't think that would be too bad, as the spell would only belong to the NPC Shade Necromancer, who I assume will probably retreat back into their Shade City (taking their undead servants with them) once they've finished what they're doing in Waterdeep.)

Also, if you do play a Shade, chances of civil interaction between Akmenos and said character are incredibly slim. Ignoring the fact he's good aligned, Akmenos has just been given several very good reasons to hate the Shades (dead lover, home destroyed, lots of fairly innocent people dead, etc). Discovering your character took part in the invasion/destruction of the city is probably going to make you 'Instant Enemies: Just Add a Knife in the Back!'
While it could make for interesting interaction, it'll definitely be difficult to keep up a prolonged roleplay. At least, with characters like my own and Tharry's, as they seeking the destruction of the Shades. Meridia probably won't be inclined to care, though, so there's someone.

Also keep in mind that while Meridia is evil, I wouldn't necessarily describe her as malicious, etc. While I doubt Akmenos will get along stunningly with her, the fact remains that even though one's good, and the other is evil, they'll probably be able to get along.

(as a side note though, YES, FEAR THE SPOONY TIEFLING BARD! FEAR HIM!)

Also, to parrot Genisisect, what happened to your centaur? It seems, at least to me, that you'd have a higher chance playing an Evil Aligned character in an actual campaign, as opposed to a centaur. I mean, we've almost got an evil character in our party right now (Sindri).
I'm glad he's neutral though. Knifey trying to get along with evil characters causes severe amounts of pain in my head.

Ahem, but yeah, in Amarillis's case, it comes down to what you guys are willing to accept in a setting where the frustrating (from a roleplaying perspective) mechanics of death and resurrection don't mean as much? If it does bother you, I'm sure there are other ways to prevent him from...well, being alive again easily.

Though I don't know how effective nobles hiding the diamonds away would be. Akmenos is a tiefling bard/rogue, and this is his beloved we're talking about. All things considered, he'd probably just steal them. I'm sure there's at least one rich person stockpiling them that hasn't hidden them as carefully as they maybe should have.
At the very least, his moral compass isn't really going to get in the way of him stealing them to resurrect Amarillis. Not unless he sees that those with the diamonds clearly need them to save their own friends/family/etc.

Anyway, I'm just rambling now. I should thank you though, John, for pointing out the gameplay flaws of the Raise Dead idea. At the very least, I have a better idea of the limitations within the actual game...(though how it affects this roleplay...well, it's up to you guys!)

[Genisisect]

In terms of generating story, I would agree with you Knifey, The necromancer idea both readily deals with keeping him dead and gives you plenty of story content.

As for whether or not you and Meridia would be able to get along. She's reasonably perceptive, if she ends up stuck with you guys she will probably behave in such a way not to course outright anger (though there will most definitely be her main trait still present, ie "Looking out for Number One")

That said, if You and Tharry are going up against the shades, and John is on his own, I may end up on there side. Or even better, both sides (I could imagine Meridia playing both sides until a clear winner is determined).

[Genisisect]

Hi ewveryone. I know that our free time is becoming more and more scarce, but I was wondering if those who were getting involved were getting any closer to starting, or if you think it might be a good idea for me and Akmenos should actually start the story and have everyone jump in when they're ready.

I'm only bringing it up because this thread is really getting lonely, and that's a shame becouse I (and I'm sure the rest of you) were really excited about this idea when it started.

[KnifeytheWanderer]

I would love to start roleplaying soon, though I can understand time issues. Still, if you're encountering snags with character creation, I trust you all know I'm willing to help. It would be great to start soon, but considering I've already poked people for group backstory stuff I feel a bit guilty trying to get you to do this too.^^'

As a side note, creation for my evil necromancer lich shade is coming along well. They have a name too! Isvanei Caedis. I have no idea if that's a good name or not, but I like it so...I'll use it! Depending on whether Ivelliohn decides to be 'good' or 'evil' will change how regularly they show up however.

After all, for Akmenos they are a goal, but if Ivelliohn plays an evil character/shade then they'll end up being an actual reoccurring cast member (character multitasking....screams)

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