General Discussion

Chat about the new system here. This is the correct place to talk about new rules/etc.

Sorry Red, I want to try and keep the rules thread specifically for rules.

As for the specialization, wait until I put out the skills and feats tables (as well as the ability score progression) It will make specializing even more varied!


The system of "leveling up" is completely different to the one you are used to. You actually spend xp on buying new feats/abilities, based on what class and rank you are. You can (and will) upgrade abilities scores with xp as well. I will of course have more info on this when I finish the character creation section.

Because my heart is more magic than machine, I'm definitely looking at something in the 'warlock' or 'summoner' trees (should they be considered levelling trees? It's just what they look like to me). Of course, no concrete choice will be made until I've taken a good look into the 'fluff' for each class, and until you've posted up the additional information in regards to specialisation , skills, feats, etc. ((though I am eagerly awaiting the fluff, ahaha!))

And though I will sorely miss our arcanists (I am currently writing up the final 'record' for that campaign, in the same style as my other piece so I can dramatise it -and as a side note if you ever have any ideas for another campaign with them I would jump at the chance to take part-) I really look forward to this new setting!!   It looks like it's going to be a lot of fun.

Sadly the fluff will come last. I want to get the rules done first. Mostly because the fluff will come easier if I have concrete rules. That said I have some basic "fluff" on each of the class trees (and yes they are leveling trees), so if you want anything on it, then go ahead.

The two mage classes are quite different to the one tech class. The balancing at the moment might be in favor of the tech class tree, but I do plan to recheck it (I was just trying hard to not have them OP)

Few that was a busy day. Most of the stuff I have written down and finalized on pen and paper is up on the forums now. I', currently working on the class trees (actually adding the perks that you purchase) and the combat rules. After combat rules are done I will probably jump back and do origins and divination.

Your input and suggestions are always appreciated. If there is a particular race/class you would like to see in the game just let me know. I will of course make judgement calls as to whether it should be in the game but it's worth a try. I might have legitimately forgot something that is important

Also if anyone wants to contribute to the fluff, just ask. I will give vague description of what the fluffs general content will be and you can go write it!

Don't worry, I can understand the fluff being done last! Either way, I look forward to it (and as a side note, I'd be willing to assist with fluff related things -I have a slight suspicion that you knew I'd be willing to do this-), and eagerly await the chance to read (or help write) it.

Also, I understand that things may be in favour of tech trees/classes (I think you mentioned as much at the session last week). I don't mind though!! I mean, I am going to attempt to make my character somewhat useful and not a burden (my aim is always this, when building a character), but I don't mind being the 'weakest' in terms of battle, skill, or build. But if my backstory isn't the most dramatic I'll probably have to go back and rewrite (kidding kidding).

I don't know whether to feel bad about the fact that when I saw 'Haggle (CHA) Basic' I thought of Dimble.

But the rules are looking good, and don't worry about the formatting on that one post. It works fine. I think you've covered most of the 'main' fantasy races and I'm content with the options present. ('add an all flying all the time centaur,' John whispers from the darkness)

That being said, I don't really have many suggestions (because I'm kind of not that smart) relevant to this. Maybe the others will though! (that being said, if you still want some sort of suggestions for future Knifey development in the main campaign, I mentioned some to Tharry -not really in a serious way, just sort of random stuff- and he said I should probably email them to you. I don't really know if any of them would work at all though, especially since you've already got the arcs for the main campaign planned. I mean I doubt they'd intervene with the story, but I also dunno if they'd just be a bit too...random. Still, I can email those if you want?)

(sorry that last part isn't entirely relevant to Machines and Magics OTL)

I am kind of laughing about the fact that the Elves have 20 for INT and the Half-Elves have 10. 'Breed with a human, half your INT score!!' (I'm not saying you should change that though, fyi. It works and I can see that the Half-Elves only have one '10' score whereas the Elves have like three, so it all balances out in the end. ^^)

I think I have re balanced the tech tree, by reducing there ability to have multiple automatic guns and turrets.

All of the classes should have some use in and out of combat though so don't fret too much about it.

The half elves aren't as intelligent as there human and elf brethren mostly because they rely on personal prowess and luck to get by. They no longer have the sense of isolation that there ancestors had, but maintain the wander lust, and don't typically get a great education. Also they needed some drop stats and INT seemed to fit best over all, and remember they do get a really good CHA and WIL.

And I just realized that that is completely contradicted by the fact they get EDU 10, I might have to swap there EDU for POW...

Sorry about the lack of content for this, but as I'm sure you can understand I have been quite busy.

The idea about souls cam out of no where, I didn't originally plan to have them but one day at about 0500 after about 12 days of 4-6 hours sleep, I decided that this was a cool idea and wrote some stuff down. I reread it later and decided it was absolute garbage, but the core Idea was pretty cool. So I developed this system. Let me know what you think.

I would like to point out, the lack of customization on the soul of the elves. That's because elves are delicate and more often then not, the die too quickly if they are not given an elf soul.

Also I referred to allot of mechanics that I don't think I have explained yet, but I know what they are, and you'll all find out soon.

Also, sorry about how poor my fluff writing is, it'll all be fixed latter.

Finally; I have also got the origins stuff written out, I just need to actually type it up,, expect that to be out by the end of the week. After that, there will be a huge gap in the publishing of more rules. As everything else isn't as straight forward as the stuff I have published so far are, so it will take a long time to write it all out and plan everything. That said, I will be starting to put up some more of the fluff! sooo yeh......

That's all for now.

Hurray, origins are finally up that. Which means in theory you can all almost completely create characters (or atleast "construct" them without including all the rules).

If anything isn't clear so far ask, I might not have explained something well.

Also I lied, I have almost finished planning the weapon categories. I will try to put them up tonight, so you can all start suggesting weapons to fill those categories!

Few, I feel like I have achieved something over the last week!

With weapon ideas. Describe something you want to see included, including what category it might go in and it's name. If I like it, I will generate rules for it. If not...... of well, it probably was OP, or essentially something I ready had.

Can't wait to see what crazy weapon ideas you all come up with.

Remember, in terms of technological/ gunpowder weapons. Aim for either Victorian era from RL, something that features in a dungeon-punk or steam-punk setting, or something that could feasibly constructed by mashing the available tech with magic.

Hey everyone, I want all of you to have an impact on the world in a rather special way. And it won't require any real effort on your half! Sounds like a great deal!

I have reached the point in the rule writing that I can't continue because I haven't fleshed out the world enough, at the moment the sticking point is character classes. To help me clarify what I want each class to be, I need stock/fluff characters.

Here's where you guys come in. Pick you favourite sounding class and post it here. I will then construct a stock character based on my own intuitions on how that class would work, and your personality (to some lesser extent). That way you all will also officially in the world (though I probably will have them as NPCs)

As his birthday present I let Red have the first pick and he chose the Scrapper sub-class. All the other choices will be done on a first in basis.

So pick you favourite class, and I'll make you a stock/fluff character.

Also if you want to make your own fluff character, wait until I build reds, and then copy the general style.

Woah it's been ages since I wrote a reply for this place! But eh, better late than never!

Addressing your latest post first! On one hand I'd love to create a 'stock' character, but on the other hand I'd probably be dissatisfied with anything I'd create because I don't know enough about to social/cultural structures of this world.
(an example, would a person who is predominately a magic wielder with a distaste for the mechanical elements of their society be oppressed? I mean, if they had knowledge of the God Wars and the fact that the Machine Gods basically destroyed the old Gods and flipped out the way magic works it would make sense for those magic wielders to be angry and potentially revolt/rebel. Of course the Machine Gods and their priests/religions/cults/etc would not want this and considering they're in power, oppression!! And even if magic wielders struggle to be as strong due to the effects of the God Wars, they'd still want to keep them under control.)
((Okay I'm just asking that question because I've been trying to figure out a magic wielder player character in my head, but I need to understand the place magic wielders have in this society...))

On the other hand, if you want to build a stock character based on me, let's go with...I just realised there's no bard type character classes. As the roleplayer, that's pretty much my go-to class for 'things that describe me.'

Oh well, in that case, Daemon Prince (and I do mean Prince, not Princess).   I have no idea if these characters are explicitly evil though. If they are, feel free to do anything in the Seer/Astropath/Navigator line. Or Mage. Just plain ol' Mage will do.

My indecisiveness is not helpful.

Though all things considered, I'm willing to construct stock/fluff characters too, and shall wait patiently for Red's sheet to be shown. Maybe I will not need all the fluff to do a decent job (liesssss)?

AS FOR WEAPONS, I don't have anything offer. Any weapon ideas I have tend to be just sort of ridiculous (FLOATING CRYSTAL MAGICAL CHANNELING LODESTONES) (BAGPIPES) (HALFLINGS) and also aren't actually weapons. What's offered seems fine (but do we get to personalise the appearance of said items, or do we have to assume they are generic designs?)

Origins all look good too! And I will say that everything is explained fine, I would just struggle to construct a character because...I need fluff.   I am the annoying roleplayer I am sorry!! I could I suppose put together a character based only on the numbers, but I think I've mentioned before I'm a bit backwards and tend to get a personality/backstory partially organised in my head, then finalise it after I organise skills and the like (so any necessary changes can be made).

ALSO, the fluff about souls is quite cool, and I like the fact you've included some flaws for this particular Machine God (its inability to judge where souls should go). The soul anomalies are quite interesting, I'm eying up quite a few of them. I mean, being born with a soul like those, well, it would definitely have a decent impact on one's life (even if they are unaware of the anomaly, they would still feel the affects of it, after all.)

So I'm thinking (oppressed, if it fits the society of this world) magic wielder with a soul anomaly, bad life, poor mental/emotional health, and a grudge against the Machine Gods and the people who created them. And his name shall be Saidin!!!
Look I even put in that Wheel of Time reference you couldn't pin on N'Miir Arshil.   Everything I know about Wheel of Time comes from the Blind Guardian song whoops
Of course since all the fluff isn't out yet I dunno if such a player character would fit into this universe. But if he does, wooh! If not, back to the drawing board I go!

The Divinations are interesting, though it also means I'd have to build the backstory/personality of said character are a foreign element (since these are randomly selected/chosen by luck). But I can deal with it (I'm sure someone with more smarts than me would be bothered by the way it alters a character's skills but well...annoying roleplayer!!)

I also read your Gameaster post and started writing an unofficial fluff post about four creatures that served said Gameaster...known as the Skald, the Madman, the Strategist, and the Slayer. It was just a joke about the (main) four player archetypes but I never finished it and I don't believe I saved the document so...dang. Ah well. -shrugs-

Anyway, sorry for the rambling. I haven't really contributed anything useful, but I have been reading the stuff that's been posted and it looks good!!  

Hope that answers your questions. Of course that is a highly summered history, but at least it will give you an idea. Also I have drafted the Stock character for Red. I wont put it up tonight, as I am getting quite weary. But I will reveal the name: Jzango "the Bloody Baron" Lezfett.   it's an amusing read. Also I have granted a stock character for the Tech-Priest to a friend of mine down here. Who has been very helpful in the cementing of my ideas for this game.

Also, I like the idea of making you the stock character for Cultist branch, I think it's kinda fitting.

Also, Also, you've been trying to figure out how to draw the DM, you've finally got a description for one. Go mad.

A quick change log then some commentary:
- Added Affinities (see commentary)
-Moved some primary characteristics to secondary
-Added Leadership and Initiative Characteristics
-Changed Skills to account for new characteristics
-New Fate/Luck system
-Adjusted Racial Abilities
-Changed how characteristics are generated
-Adjusted Soul ability bonuses for the new Fate/Luck system

Still to be done:
-Adjust Origins for the new system
-Adding in Racial abilities
-Writing out Feats
-Write out the Class Perk Trees

Commentary:

Whew that's quite a change! I was unsatisfied in the end of trying to write out individual feat/ skill progression trees for the individual classes. I had seen an affinities system that worked and I feel it integrated well. Now the class trees have unique talents, and other talents can be bought like feats in normal DnD, from a common pool with prices depending on your affinities. I have decided that races should offer traits, so I'll be working on that next, after bringing the origins up to date. Feel free to discuss the new system.

Origins are out, with a little fluff to! Some of the traits are not described, this is because they the are general traits that are not limited to origin traits. I will be working on the racial traits next, then ill be releasing a list of traits.

The Summoner Class is up, feel free to give feedback about their unique powers. Note, I haven't released their infusions (spells) yet.

Change-log:
Changes to the item system. Instead of having different sizes of weapons (small, medium, large) which counted as different proficiencies there is no a level system, ie in order to use an item you must be of rank (0-6). Added quality (but not how quality is determined) system, and an availabilities system and how availability is determined. Proficiencies are now done by category (ie. Weapon proficiency (basic ranged))

Hunter Class is up, feel free to offer suggested improvements!

Mage and Outlaw classes are out, though only the first three levels. I want to try and push out the sections of the game we will be using quickly so I can actually write the adventure.

I just wanted to provide a quick update so that you all know what is going on. Though we didn't do much it may have felt, the test game was increadibly useful. I realized that some systems *ahem magic ahem* were far more punishing than intended, even combat was a bit more of a stuggle than I thought it would be. We also discovered some fundemental issues in character creation that would need to be nutted out. Since then I have been quite busy and there has been some substantial changes put into the game. I've drawn from new material (some concepts from 5e intergrated surprisingly well into already existant systems in MnM) and soon I will be releasing what I have got. Sadly there has been little time to develope the classes, I have stripped all classes down to only thier first 3 tiers for now (the higher elements will be added in latter don't fear).

The other new thing in MnM is that I decided I was unhappy with simply stealing a setting to base my own world off. And so MnM now has it's own universe. The lore currently on the site will be changed minimally, but there is now a whole new world history. I will be posting that when I release the other stuff.

That should all be dropping soon, just wanted to keep you in the loop.

-The Gamaester

This is the first release of the revised MnM, there is alot to say about it and it and I'm too tired to say it, so a detailed changelog will go up tomorrow. A quick note, the next update shouldn't be too far off, it will feature the revised equepment system, actions the completion of the missing affinities entries and the rest of the abridged history. But for now enjoy and review.

The Gamaester.

Created new setting; MnM now takes place in the world of Theril, as a part of this change several alterations to the mechanics were made:
Races;
-Added Drogonkin, Drow, Duergar, Goblin, and Chitines as races
-Removed: Half-Elves
Origins:
-Removed Celestial and Infernal origins, added Deep Dark
Souls:
-Adjusted racial restriction to accommodate new races, moved dragon soul from anomaly to racial, added darksoul

New Skill check system;
-Removed previous skill system and implemented an affinities based skill system.
-Complete rewrite of the affinities section to accommodate this change.
-Souls and Origins updated to match new affinities system
-Rewrote section on checks and saves to explain the new proficiency/ affinity mechanic.
-Added Advantage/ Disadvantage and Favour mechanics
-Adjusted difficulty classes to have a smaller range and incorporate advantage/ disadvantage

Attempted a new rebalance for Characteristic Generation;
-Racial secondary characteristic modifiers are now centred at 20 (as opposed to 10), bonus d10s for secondary characteristics are now rolled at every odd characteristic bonus

Future changes:
-Classes have been temporarily removed, new class sections still are being written, but will probably bear no semblance to the old information (though the class trees themselves are not being altered).
-A new section on combat actions is currently being written
- The lore overview is still incomplete, there is much history left to be outlined
- A new section on magic, proficiencies and equipment to account for the affinities system will need to be written

Commentary:
This was a pretty big change, and I'm  still working through it. Hopefully the stuff that I have put up will help you guys understand the new direction I've taken with the game. The new affinities system was based of the proficiencies in DnD 5e, and replaces the old skill system. I feel that this reduces the overall complexity of the game without necessarily reducing character options. I recognise that this will likely require a larger feat pool than i was originally intending, but I don't think this is a bad thing. The new lore is a fair amount of work, but I've been quite in depth about the early history for 2 reasons; I feel it helps to determine how the world currently works, and I plan to make the time shortly after the breaking of the world into a DnD setting. I think that's all the comments about this part of the update, hope it's not too long before the next.

-The Gamaester-